Arnav Dalmia’s Interview Transcript

Full Episode Notes Available Here

Transcript

Adam:

Welcome to The Founder's Mind Arnav.

Arnav:

Thank you for having me. Adam.

Adam:

We are at Cubii's offices in Chicago. It is a cold but not cold enough to snow and rainy night right now. And I'm kind of kicking off all these episodes here in Chicago with this. And my flight was canceled and I at 3:30 hit up a bunch of people and Arnav was one of them and said, I'm here. Would you be interested in being on The Founder's Mind? And Arnav and I met this morning at a National Breakfast Tour event hosted by Scott Case and Upside. And so this is literally, we're talking about, you know, 10 hours post meetings. So Arnav was game and here we are. Thank you so much for being open.

Arnav:

Thanks for coming down. I appreciate it.

Adam:

For listeners, could you, in your words, tell me what's going on here I mean you've got cool offices. This is definitely a startup.

Arnav:

Yup, absolutely. Well I like to say it's kind of more like a mid sized business right now. You know, the startup word comes with a lot of connotations and we like to distance ourselves from those. When people hear the word startup, they're like cool, fancy yacht parties. Tons of, we see money really big teams. But we've kind of really been the opposite of all of that. We've really tried to cultivate this business more like a true American small business, focusing on profitability, doing things the old school way, not just thinking about valuations and growing things for the sake of growing things. So yeah, for that reason, I like to call it more of a mid-sized business as compared to a startup.

Adam:

I love that. I will take the correction. And there's also, and I can't point to the article directly, but maybe I'll plug it into the show notes. People are talking about this more, you know, profit overvaluation.

Arnav:

Absolutely.

Adam:

Right. And there are a lot of really, really, really big examples in the last year of where focusing on valuation is really torpedoed investors. I mean like like Uber. We Work. Uber crossed the threshold of IPO, but it was not what they expected. And We Work imploded before IPO.

Arnav:

Yeah. In our own industry as well, you know we see Peloton kind of struggling with the same challenge very high valuations but struggling with profitability. So that's one of the things we've kind of focused on since day one. And you know, that kind of mindset is very different from a traditional venture mindset

Adam:

For sure. So I want to ask questions about this because I think it's so important for founders to think about this. You know, we live in the world of hustle porn and get rich quick quote unquote, but you get rich by raising money and then, you know, acquisition or IPO. So I want to get back into the focus of how you've built the business, but what is Cubii, what are we talking about? What is the thing that you're making?

Arnav:

Yeah, great question. Cubii is a new age health and wellness company that focuses on helping people go from zero to one. What we found was that there were a lot of fitness companies that helped active people get more active, but there really weren't any fitness companies that were helping people just get started. So we started Cubii, we invented a compact elliptical trainer that people could use in the office when they were working or they could use it in front of their couch when they were watching TV. The idea being integrating low impact easy exercise into their lives so they can just get started somewhere.

Adam:

Amazing.

Arnav:

Thank you.

Adam:

So when did this start?

Arnav:

This started back in 2014. Me and my co founder who is also my wife now. Both of us were working full time jobs and each of us had a commute, which was an hour and a half each way to work. So in a day, that was three hours just spent in commuting. By the time we came back home from work, we were just too lazy and did not feel like going to the gym. So we kind of talked to ourselves, how cool would it be if he came up with something that helped us stay more active at work when we're sitting for eight hours a day.

Adam:

Ok and we've been to the office, there will be pictures on social, but this is like a, it almost looks like pedals.

Arnav:

Yep, exactly. Yeah. I think about it as like a compact bike. A compact, elliptical like you see the big ones in the gym. Think of like a miniature version of that. Something that you can do when you're just sitting on your regular chair

Adam:

And there are a lot of them in like the middle of your office. There's like, and again, I'll share this picture. Are those all like the versions that you've been through, the iterations, you didn't just think about this and create one and then boom, it was done?

Arnav:

No. So me and my wife, neither of us are engineers. Both of us studied economics, so completely unrelated to developing and building our product from scratch. So we've been through multiple iterations, trial and error to finally get to the product that we have right now. That's why you see all of our prototypes floating around.

Adam:

I think that's something that people quickly forget. You see an entrepreneur that you admire, you see a business that you admire or you're impressed by, and you look at your own idea or the business you're starting and you think they must've started there, like look like it's always been like that for them. But there's so much behind what is, you know, what that product is or like even we'll talk about like a popular and even the first iPhone, right? Just look at the first iPhone now that you have the iPhone that you have or whatever the first Android, whatever platform you care about. Even in, you know, 13 years in technology, how insane the shift is. What are some big lessons? So you're not an engineer, you're not a designer, not a designer. You're an economist or you studied economics. So what are some of the, what are some lessons, give me one or two that you've learned in entering into building a physical product?

Arnav:

That's a great question. I think the first most important one is listening to your customers. And we spoke about it in the breakfast this morning, but just to give everybody a quick recap. You know, our investors, our advisors always told us the most important thing for any business or for any product to succeed is to listen to your customers. So we took that piece of advice, a bit too literally and included my personal cell phone number and email address in every Cubii box that we sold.

Adam:

So when you say we, you mean I?

Arnav:

Me and my co founder. So both of us, we just included like my number in every Cubii box. So we started to get these phone calls from customers kind of talking about the story, how they benefited from the product, what kind of impact they've seen in their lives. And very quickly we realized that people in the office were just a small subset of our overall users. Where Cubii was really having an impact, was helping people that might be deconditioned, that might have limited mobility help, helping them kind of get back into an exercise routine. So this entire ginormous market opened up for us, one that we were not even thinking about when we first started the company. So I think the biggest, biggest lesson for us so far has been to just listen to what our customers are saying.

Adam:

That's amazing. And I think that it's simple in concept, right? But in practice it can be hard.

Arnav:

Yup. Definitely.

Adam:

And I think that there's a level of humility for founders around listening to your customers. Again, it seems obvious, but you're building something. You have this idea, you start this thing and then, you know, people are starting to tell you, well, actually, what we really want or how we're really using it is this way. And do you have the humility to lean into it?

Arnav:

Absolutely. I think founders very often fall in love with the product or the business they're working on too much without necessarily realizing whether customers love it or not. And I think it took us some time as well to make that mental shift to shift our focus from people in the office to this broader universe of people that don't have other means of exercising. But when we did make the change the growth of the company changed drastically. So I think it's a mental shift, but once you get there, things can change drastically.

Adam:

I love this. So give us a timeline. When did the company start? Here's what want. When did the company start and you can go like rapid fire. When was the first unit sold and when did you make the change?

Arnav:

Company started 2014. We did a crowd funding campaign in 2014. The first units from the campaign shipped in 2016. We made the shift in late 2017.

Adam:

So 2016 to 2017.

Arnav:

Yep.

Adam:

Plus or minus a year.

Arnav:

Right.

Adam:

Okay. And so since 2017, it's now 2020, but you know, late 2019. So it's been two years since you've made that shift. Walk us through that. What are we talking about when you say that they opened everything up?

Arnav:

So for a reference, we were doing about $2 million in revenue in 2017. This last year we did about 25 million, which is 10 times more than we did two years back.

Adam:

Damn.

Arnav:

Yes.

Adam:

Venture world is asking themselves, why aren't we focusing on profit?

Arnav:

Exactly. for context, we were selling 300 units a month at that time back in 2017 now they're selling 300 units a day.

Adam:

Oh dang.

Arnav:

So when I say things changed drastically, I really, really mean it.

Adam:

So were there other things that like shifted? Did you take the product and you marketed it to different people? Were there sort of operational things that changed or was this literally just something that you lean into and nothing a lot, nothing much changed in the office?

Arnav:

You know, the funny thing is nothing changed about the product. The product remained as it is. Operations wise, everything remained as it is. The only thing that changed was we changed our branding and marketing message a little bit. So we expanded our focus from helping you work out when you work, to helping you work out anytime you want, whether it's at home or in the office.

Adam:

Amazing. And how's your team set up? We're here in the office. You got some conference rooms, you got some offices.

Arnav:

So it's a very lean and scrappy team. So just going back to our core values, it starts with an S which stands for scrappy. You know the discussion we were having earlier about a venture capital, Cubii has not taken on a lot of venture capital. We've reinvested our profits back into the company. So we have a very scrappy team. Marketing is probably the biggest department because we've, you know, we're essentially creating a category over here. So we have a really big marketing team focusing on driving awareness for the category. A very small operations team because we primarily focus on direct to consumer sales through our website and through Amazon. And then we focus on customer service a lot. So they have an in house customer service team of about six people just focused on answering phone calls from customers and helping them solving their problem.

Adam:

In Chicago?

Arnav:

In Chicago.

Adam:

Whoa.

Arnav:

And here's the funny thing, Adam, not a funny thing, it's a pretty intentional thing, you know, we say that customers are at the heart of the company. We literally mean it. So the center space, you see here in the office, the six, seven cubicles, that's all occupied by our customer success team. So that when I'm walking from my office to the kitchen out of the bathroom, I can literally listen to what our customers are saying. And all of that kind of goes into our marketing message and to product development. So everything is getting influenced by the customer.

Adam:

I think that's a really, I mean some of the people talk about, right and Richard Branson talks about it and sort of in a different way. He talks about, like if you take care of your people, your people take care of your customers and your customers take care of your business, but in there is taking care of your customers and not only from a value standpoint like you said, but how you're organizing the space. And I think that's a really interesting distinction. So if you're listening to this and you're thinking about company culture, if you're listening to this and you think about how you organize your office, you know, what are the focal points of your office and the space that you're creating, and is it connected with the values? I think that's really interesting. I don't know if I've heard that.

Arnav:

You know, it is very interesting. Oftentimes in a lot of companies you know, the customer success team, customer service team is not given as much attention as it deserves. But we've really tried to change that at our company. They're not Dr Wayne in a remote office, in the suburbs on another floor. We literally keep them at the heart of the company because that's truly what we believe in.

Adam:

I love that. I've always been, my background, you know, now I'm an executive coach. I'm a partner in a leadership development business in DC, the Kadar group. But before that I worked at Apple for six and a half years and after Apple in between what I do now, I worked at a startup in Chicago Belly Card, which is since you know, iterated and morphed and was sold off and acquired in different ways. But I was on the merchant success team, which is essentially the customer service team of that company. So this is near and dear to my heart. I've always been in this sort of customer service space. And I think Apple did an incredible job with how they train their retail employees and they created these spaces for customers to interact with them. And it has paid dividends. I mean we talked about it a little bit this morning, but when they started their stores, a lot of people thought it wasn't a good idea. And I was corrected this morning by Howard. Some people thought it was, but most people thought it wasn't, but it enabled people to go there. You know? And I think it's interesting for a mid sized business, I want to call you the right thing, for a midsize business. And this is redundant, but I think it's so important to highlight here, to put your customer service in the middle of your office. And that is again, you're living and breathing and walking and talking this value.

Arnav:

You know, we were just talking about Southwest and one of the reasons why people love Southwest is because of the attitude that their staff members have. And you know, it's a reflection of how well the company takes care of them and they take care of their customers like that. So we kind of believe the same thing in Cubii. If we take care of our people, if our customer success team, they're going to in turn take care of our customers

Adam:

A hundred percent. That's so cool. So it's 2020, things have changed dramatically in two years. Clearly. Did you imagine that you'd be where you are today when you started?

Arnav:

No. No. Had no idea. So we started this company very quickly out of college about a year after graduation. So had no prior experience even working at a company for a long period of time. So yeah, we could not have imagined being here so quickly.

Adam:

So you graduated college, the two of you at the same time? What's your wife's name?

Arnav:

Shavani.

Adam:

Shavani. Okay, cool. Well we can be on a first name basis here. Hi. Shavani sorry you're not here. We would have been good part of the interview, I'm sure.

Arnav:

She is actually.

Adam:

Oh, she is? Yeah, she can she come in?

Arnav:

Yeah.

Adam:

Okay, we'll get her in a second. But you, you graduated college, you get a job.

Adam:

And what if you've never started something before, what was the thing, what was the moment? What was the conversation where you and Shavani were like, let's build something? Literally.

Arnav:

So it wasn't just two of us. We have a third co founder as well. You know, the three of us were friends in college and I think we had just come back from internships. Okay. And I think it was our final semester at school and you know, the college was having this competition like an entrepreneurship competition. And we were like, you know, let's participate in it just because at some point in the future we might want to be entrepreneurs, so this will be good experience for our future. So we essentially thought about the challenge we were having the past summer, which was coming back from work, not having enough motivation to exercise and we thought, you know what, let's build a piece of equipment that helps us stay more active.

Arnav:

So it kind of started that way. Started off through a competition and then we did not win we placed a second. And very proud to say the company that won first prize is no longer in business.

Adam:

So you're proud to say that's throwing some shade. We'll keep it nameless though.

Arnav:

So I think it started off as a college competition and then very quickly transformed into a real business because the more and more we spoke to people, people thought that we really had something.

Adam:

So how did you create the thing? I mean like you're not a designer engineer. I know Shavani is not you shared that. And the third co founder?

Arnav:

He is a bio major so he's not either. So we, the first prototype was essentially buying Bart's from home Depot and putting it together.

Arnav:

There we go. That is the founder's story. We want to hear. You went to home Depot?

Arnav:

Yes.

Adam:

You, you all bought things.

Arnav:

We broke things. We bought stuff from like we bought existing fitness products. We broke them apart because we couldn't find the parts otherwise.

Adam:

Okay. So I'm imagining someone's living room is wrecked.

Arnav:

Exactly.

Adam:

Your living room?

Arnav:

My living room.

Adam:

Your living room. And you, I'm seeing parts, I'm seeing pedals, I'm seeing gears all over the place. Probably manuals. Definitely some tools. Talk us through that. That's probably the most interesting thing we're going to talk about.

Arnav:

So we bought a bunch of existing products, took things apart literally broke things because we did not have the machinery to like take things apart properly. And we put together like our very first crude prototype that, okay, this is a concept, this is how it's gonna work. You know, your knees cannot move too much because it cannot hit the bottom of a desk, so we had to like figure it out, those kinds of things. Once that was done, we made some sketches literally on a piece of paper on you know, the handkerchief sketch as they call it to think about what this could look like. And then after that we worked with a couple of design students from IIT, Illinois Institute of Technology, and they helped us they were like, you know what, come in. We have a lab where we have 3D printers. You guys draw it on a piece of paper and we'll help you print things out.

Adam:

Whoa. So how did you find the IIT designers.

Arnav:

That was through University of Chicago, which is where we went to school.

Adam:

So you contacted some people at university and they were like, that's why IIT's here. Just go a little, they're close to each other. Parallels, right? IIT just on the Dan Ryan. Like right on top of it. So you contact, I'm assuming your department and they put you in touch with students. Okay. And curious, anyone that did the original designs, are they affiliated or associated?

New Speaker:

No they're not, they moved on. They moved on. I think even after that point people were still thinking, these guys are crazy. This is ridiculous. Like how is a product like this ever going to fly? You know, it was always considered like a cool school project, but I don't think too many people ever imagined this transforming into a real business.

New Speaker:

It's not sexy. And the product, obviously very functional. People love it. People are buying it like crazy. But it's not like we talked about Peloton, like Peloton is like a really, really cool designed bike screen brand is on point. You know, there's a nice shell around it, but like you say, it's very visible. You know, and this is something that either is under a desk or in front your couch but can also be tucked away. Right. So I can, I can definitely see sort of like the lack of sex appeal, not pulling people in in the beginning.

Arnav:

Absolutely. Now we had, we had a lot of that struggle. I think the biggest struggle for us was, you know, for Peloton for example, biking was an was an established sport already. You know Soul Cycle, Fly Wheel. For us we were asking them to do something that nobody had ever done. You know, the idea of working out at your desk was unheard of. The idea of like, you know, doing something when you're watching TV or reading a book was unheard of. So initially it was met with a lot of skepticism. To be honest, even until today, when we go to trade shows and things, people are very skeptical.

Adam:

Today?

Arnav:

Even today. Yeah.

Adam:

And then do you say like, yo, 300 units a day, how do you feel about that?

Arnav:

You know we don't necessarily share that all the time because we love flying under the radar.

Adam:

So you don't flex too much. Then the good news is I don't have a huge audience yet, but someday when people are coming back I'm like, Whoa, you'll already be in a whole different place with your business.

Arnav:

And honestly that's truly been a part of the strategy. I mean, we've been enjoying a lot of success, but we don't necessarily want to flaunt the success because we think flying under under the radar is actually helping us. I think most of it, most fitness companies are trying to copy Peloton, but you know, they're ignoring this other business that's really growing very quickly, which is awesome for us.

Adam:

Yeah, for sure. And there are a lot of parallels here with, with things that Warren Buffet talks about, right? Like Warren Buffet famously talks about investing in things that aren't necessarily like super sexy or super awesome, but he's like, but if the profits are there and the profits are growing, and he's obviously like a big champion for compound interest, and then it sounds like there's some of those principles in what you're doing, right? You've found something that works. You clearly have a system around it and the business has grown tremendously and whether it's you don't need attention because you're just doing the work, you know, and you want people, you want the customers to be taken care of, or you're not necessarily seeking venture or aggressively seeking it. Obviously you've had some investments, we've talked about it, but it isn't like, how do we raise $100 million at a billion dollar valuation. So that we can like take over the world that way. It's this foundation and Amazon started by reinvesting every penny into the business. You know? I mean, that was their thing. Maybe you'll be the richest person in the world in 30 years. Is that a goal?

Arnav:

No thwat's not. So I think being profitable and sustainable is very important for us. It's kind of goes back to my roots as well. I grew up in India and so did my wife and you know, when we were growing up venture capital did not exist around us and you know, these kinds of things that we talk about private equity, like these things did not exist. My parents are entrepreneurs. I kind of watched them in business and the idea of a business always was revenue minus costs is profit and that's what dad brought home to put food on the table that, you know, the very basic idea of a business. So we kind of grew up with that mindset. So even when I came here and I came to Chicago in college in 2009, I kind of brought that mindset with me that that's how a business is run.

Adam:

Which is technically true, right? You do need to be profitable at some point. Otherwise, literally, what the fuck are you doing?

Arnav:

Exactly. So I think for a moment for, you know, for a couple of years you would read Tech Crunch and you read about these crazy valuations and these crazy funding rounds. And literally I've asked my advisors like, am I doing something wrong? Like we don't need that much money. Like, am I doing, am I missing out on something? And everybody just encouraged me to focus and just do what we were doing. And that's why we resulted in kind of you know, where we are. In addition to that. You know, as I was saying, it's just not the profits. It's also about doing good while doing well. I think one of the things that we love about this business is that it's really impacting lives at a massive scale. If you think about the audience that's overweight might be obese has had limited mobility, cannot move. What we've come up with is a solution to help stay more active or get more active. We've literally gotten stories from customers where they've done away with their walkers and they don't need to use their canes anymore or walkers anymore because they finally have enough strength in their legs to start walking.

Adam:

Cause they went from zero to one like you talk about. That's incredible that I just had another couple of conversations today. I did a flurry of mini interviews at 1871 so I interviewed three founders in an hour, which was really cool. But one of the founders is working on a company called Promotable, which is about helping people upscale. And he talks about the stories that he gets back that, you know, someone getting interviews that they would never get before they acquired some of these new skills. And I think when we focus businesses on helping people, but like truly helping people, right in making measurable differences in their lives, that's an incredible space to be in. It must be very motivating,

Arnav:

Super motivating. Be actually get letters and postcards from our customers. So we actually have a wall to show you before we leave. We've put up all of these postcards from our customers kind of sharing stories and the impact that the product has had on their lives.

Adam:

That's incredible. So we do live in a very tech heavy world. Do you have any, like are you, do you know how many miles people have walked? Are you tracking any of that?

Arnav:

We do, so the device actually does connect with an app which keeps track of your progress. And our long term vision is to connect that app to a care provider as well. So if you're taking care of your mom, your dad, or if you know to a doctor, a physical therapist, they can see how their patient is doing. So it does track your steps, your miles, your calories. In terms of total distance, we probably surpassed the moon multiple times now. And I think we are kind of very close to Mars at this point.

Adam:

For real?

Arnav:

For real,

Adam:

Man, you're going to beat humanity to Mars.

Arnav:

We have a joke in the office, we're gonna get there before Space X does. And I think that's really doable.

Adam:

Wow. Elon Musk are you listening? Cubii's walking people to Mars. That's great. I was curious if that's something that you've tracked, obviously, those are not only are they fun and interesting stats, but also that's part of the measurement. What is, the stories are incredible and those are the real moments, but what's happening, you know, what are people doing, you know? So that's cool. That's great to hear. What's one thing that you know now that you would have loved to have known at the beginning of this journey?

Arnav:

Oh, that's, that's a tough one. You know, the funny thing, Adam, is that stuff we did not know has actually helped us get to where we're at. And I'm actually really grateful for where we're at because we were really outsiders to the industry. We had no fitness experience, no consumer product experience. So the way we did things was really thinking about ourselves as customers first. And if I were a customer, how would I like to be treated? And we tried to apply some of those principles into training our team in building this company. So I think all the stuff that we did not know before starting the company actually you worked very nicely to our advantage to help us get to wherever you're at right now.

Adam:

So ignorance, ignorance is bliss.

Arnav:

Absolutely. I think that's, that's key.

Adam:

I think that's so interesting and I've heard, I've actually heard this more than once, more than five times from founders saying this, if they knew everything that they knew now, they may not start.

Arnav:

Oh absolutely 100%. If I knew all the potential challenges and downsides of starting a business or a hardware company, I probably would never have started it.

Adam:

But it sounds like worth it.

Arnav:

Oh, it's totally worth it. Okay. It's more than worth it.

Adam:

That's the incredible thing. I think about entrepreneurship, especially people like you and your co founders that are really committed to the work that it is this like unbelievably messy and beautiful, complex relationship with being an entrepreneur. Like, there are these, you can't stop thinking about the solution. You can't stop thinking about your customers. You can't stop thinking about how do you evolve and iterate. And there are these like left hooks out of nowhere that knock you on the ground for a minute. But you've got to get back up. Like there's this incredible energy I think around people that are really boots on the ground.

Arnav:

Yep. Definitely.

Adam:

Because we also live in a world where people just talk about doing stuff and I don't need to dog anyone specifically, but there's a difference between talking about it and doing it. Yeah. And and again, this idea of really being committed to your customers, this highlight for me. Cause I think that is, that is so important. What's a piece of advice, you mentioned that your advisors really encourage you to stick on the path. It sounds like you have incredible advisors. What's a piece of advice that's really stuck out for you from someone that you've taken to heart in this journey besides stick with it?

Arnav:

Build a business that you never want to sell.

Adam:

Wow.

Arnav:

Because oftentimes I would ask my advisors what do we do to get acquired? Like, you know, we don't want to be on this journey forever. Like, we don't want to, if you want to try and do different things with our lives as well. But we love what we're doing right now. But you know, we've taken on some money, a very small amount of money from investors and they expect us to get paid someday. And what I kept hearing again and again from a few of our advisors was that "build a business that is so valuable, so precious that you never want to sell it". And that blew my mind because I was always under the impression that if I take money from somebody, I'm supposed to build a business which can be sold one day. So I think oftentimes founders kind of get into that trap where they go after growth metrics and end up, you know, not focusing on the foundations of the business. So at some point they have to get acquired or it's going to be the end. And I think what we've tried to do over here is build a company, build a culture which is so valuable that, you know, even if we don't sell in the next five, 10, 15 years, I'd be more than happy just running the company as it is. And because we're sustainable, we don't have to raise another round. We don't have to try and sell the business.

Adam:

My eyebrows are like almost in my hair. Like I'm just damn. So these are like the big things that are coming to me from the conversation. Focus on profitability, which again, if you're thinking about business basics, that makes sense, but it's really like sort of a unique idea in the startup world and build a business that you don't want to sell, meaning that you love it so much that you've done something that is so just personally valuable. And apparently in this, there's proof here the metrics will come. The units will move, the revenue will increase if you listen to your customers. They'll point you in the right direction and we have Cubii here to prove it. This is a great case study, even though you're not a case that you're just building this business. This is all really, really incredible. I do have one other question and I would be remissed if I didn't ask. Have you done any travel?

Arnav:

I have.

Adam:

Okay. So I am working with Scott Case and Upside and it's all about travel. So any travel stories, travel highlights, horror around being a founder?

Arnav:

There is one highlight. So this is back in the day of going back to 2015, we had our crowd funding campaign. And I was in Asia trying to figure out how do we actually make this product and get it to thousands of people that have backed us flying from one city in China to another city and really things not working out. And I remember boarding a flight and I see this advertisement from HSBC and that completely changed my mindset. An ad. And it was incredible. And I've tried to like find it again on the internet. I still not been able to find it, but I very clearly remember what it says and it said that it's not time to give up. It's never just business. And I took that to heart because it was one of those kind of quotes that you read and you're like, yes, it's not just about business. It's about exposing myself personally to these Kickstarter folks. And I boarded that plane and after that I never looked back.

Adam:

That's incredible. I love that this question prompted by, you know, my work with Upside goes to this trip to Asia and it's not time to give up. It's never just about business. How powerful. You have dropped so much on me and people that listen to this. I'm really appreciative and thank you. Thank you for the time. I appreciate it. What is, for those that are interested, how do people find what you're doing? How do people, if someone wants to buy it?

Arnav:

Yeah. So you just search for Cubii. C. U B I I dot. com and you can check it out on Amazon as well or you can check it out on our website.

Adam:

Excellent. And one parting thought as I was listening to you talk about how you build the business in this trip to Asia. Have you read Shoe Dog by Phil Knight?

Arnav:

I have not. No.

Adam:

I think that you would love it. So he built, he started building Nike in the 60s. And there's a lot in the book. The whole book is about from starting a shoe company, which was not Nike initially all the way to when they went public. And then it skips to like some stuff in the two thousands. But there are some interesting parallels and specifically like a trip to Asia and many trips to Asia trying to find manufacturers that I think you would like. And it was also previously industry. So like funding the business and putting all the money back into it. So that's a little little anecdote.

Arnav:

I'll have to look that up.

Adam:

Thank you again Arnav for being on the show.

Arnav:

Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.